well if you are a 'side' guy and not a 'band' member then yes you should be paid per rehearsal and per gig........that's how i work situations similar to this.
The names and places are changed to protect the innocent.
Here's the situation: I'm playing with a keyboard player (Joe Schmoe)at a jazz club (Let's say La Vee Lee). The material is all of Joe's originals. Here are the details:
-We've been rehearsing for several months with no pay for rehearsals.
-We've played at said club twice already, this will be the third time.
-Both the bass player and I didn't get paid the first gig because Joe said we made hardly any money even though I brought 15+ people at $10 a head.
-The bass player demanded $100 for the second gig and got it but also pissed off Joe. I received no money for the second gig. Joe says he will get a new bass player but hasn't yet and is paying the bass player again another $100 for this gig. As long as the bass player acts semi into it, Joe won't replace him.
-Joe says I should be thankful to be playing at a place like La Vee Lee and a lot of guys would play there for free. I doubt the big boys would play anywhere for free except for special one-off stuff.
-It's pissing me off that I'm bringing my friends, they're paying $10 and that money is going straight to the bass player and Joe's pocket.
I think if it were a band, then everyone should pay for rehearsals, and split the gig money. However, as a side man playing someone else's tunes, it seems like the sideman should get a flat fee.
Can anyone give some advice here please? I don't want to be a chump. I'm having a hard time enjoying the gig with all of this B.S.
well if you are a 'side' guy and not a 'band' member then yes you should be paid per rehearsal and per gig........that's how i work situations similar to this.
I'm sorry to have to say this, but, from what basic info youve supplied here, it sounds to me like you may be getting chumped.
I just got out of a situation like that, that i had been in for a good while, & had to deal w this type of similar scenario often...I'd state my case at the roundtable, it'd be cool for awhile, then back to the same lame ol' MO. Wasnt the first time, prob wont be the last, but i'll be da**ed if i'm gonna put up w it.
I cant know the full scenario from what you typed, buit...it sounds as if the guy's lettin' you take the lumps so he doesnt have to...living his dream at your expense. Because it's his gig, & he can, if you let him - a prob you will often run into if you are not alert in the music business. Guys like that are just waiting for the guy who wants to play so desperately that he'll hang in there for almost any kind of BS. But this in & of itself is NOT the way a "pro" w integrity acts.
Nip this prob in the bud decisively yet diplomatically. Ask politely for a flat rate. Use a sob story song & dance like he does, if you have to [if it comes to it], that you have to make a living also ["an ex has two kids by you; the mortgage, bills, insurance, car paymt...alimony" [img]wink.gif[/img] ].
NEVER share any personal info about your personal life to an employer in this scenario. it's none of their business anyway. They will use knowledge of your personal situation to keep you backed into a corner if the scenrio permits. Don't be rude; just keep it to small talk, & all business. Lay out your "demands" reasonably [politely yet firmly]. This way, there's no room for them to take advantage of you, because you'll have shown that you deserve respect as a business person. It is important NOT to come across like some desperate, or overly-willing, slobbering, chomping at the bit musician [NOT that you are; just some advice oi'm throwing out]. Be cool about it, & level-headed. Never let emotions dictate HOW you are going to react or say something in this instance.
If theyre not willing to give it [respect], chances are it prob wasnt as "great a gig" as it appears. "I really enjoy workg w you, & the music, but i just cant make a living this way. But let's keep in touch - you never know down the line. Maybe things will pick up for you..." - diplomacy & tact.
And find a better gig.
Deeper respect & trust are EARNED, by BOTH parties. Not taken at face value, right off the bat, so there's no prob w stating your case in this way. You should NEVER be expected to play a "playing out" gig that earns any amount of $ for little or NO $ yourself. The guy who's name is on the marquee wouldnt want it that way either.
People will promise all kinds of glory down the road in order to screw you today...learn to identify it...& go w your instincts...only YOU can make the call & 'read' the situation properly, stick to your guns.
I really want to call this guy a Four-or-More letter word...
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 06, 2004 11:15 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
Joe is ripping you off. He tried to rip the bassist off too, until he made a stand. As a professional, your time is worth money.
I expect to make at least $100 per gig. My last 20 gigs were above that figure. My days of playing for peanuts are almost over, and I hope that yours will be too! You need to draw the line and demand to be payed, or you will find another (paying) gig. Best of luck with it!
run as far away as you can.
as far as i'm concerned if you are not a full member of the band, and capable of recieving the full benifits, like potential publishing, equal door wages, album sales, you should be paid for everything you do.
to me the band leader is using your abilities to make money, and further his career.
you each should get a share of the door.
now if you really like the tunes you play and want to continue with the gig you don't need to ask for and arm and a leg.
but if you don't receive anything, and it isn't even a part of the band leaders thought process,
you are just being used.
in my life i've done many original based gigs. and each situation is different. some have been backing an artist who wrote the tunes by themselves, control everything and as a result has to pay for everything.
some have been working with others, creating tunes together putting up the cost of rehearsal collectively and reinvesting any profits back into the band.
but if there was ever a surplus it was split between all the members.
in every situation i've been lucky enough that if there was money made, by the door, album sales, i had recieved a portion of it, be it prenegotiated or as a result of sharing the revenue.
i believe it's a matter of respect and professionalism and this band leader doesn't have respect for you and doesn't sound to professional.
chris perra
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 07, 2004 03:34 AM: Message edited by: chris perra ]</font>
Listen to Fuse. He stated it perfectly.
Being able to say you played at a well known club is cool once or twice but at some point the leader has to step up and make it more worth your time and energy.
Randy, Fuse, Addict, really good advice.
You could also think of it this way. What would it cost to rent a set of drums and have it taken to the club? I think it's around $125 to $250 in LA. Your time is worth at least the price to haul the equipment. Tell him you'll play for free but you're going to have to charge him for moving the gear.
Thanks for the words of wisdom. You guys have totally confirmed what was going on in my gut and the direction I should take.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not to sound contrary but... In my opinion what your're employer is making is really inconsequential and frankly no one's business but his. All financial arrangements should be arranged prior to the commencement of work and adhered to. In this particuliar scenario, the employer is obviously not living up to his end and some type of communication should take place to address this. Even if there are other collateral benefits of doing this gig, I still think a discussion should take place.Originally posted by Mr. Acrolite:
Find out what the guy's deal is with the venue. Does he get a flat fee? Does he play for the door? Door plus bonus?
If he's playing for the door, he should split the money with the band, maybe taking a little extra for himself for setting up the gig. If he's playing for a flat fee, so should you, even if it's a low fee.
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